I'm putting this on the open part of the forum but may move it to the members only area if others think it more suitable.

I'm hoping that those who know me realise I'm pretty laid back and easy going about things and not much gets me upset, I do try to smooth things over when needed but I do want to make a few comments on the way the care & share days and TBag are going and hoping to make a few changes to help the days run smoothly in a way that is fair to everyone.
Now I appreciate Lyn and I are now running a business via the days and the forum and we hope that the business is enhanced by these so I feel we do need to pull our weight more than others but the original aim when I started the Care & Share days was to help people to improve themselves, our art, which would in turn get the general public to appreciate and admire this wonderful art form of ours and this will always be our aim to improve.

We have been running the days for over six years now and my enthusiasm is as great now as it was then, but due to a few small easy to overcome problems which I wish to share with everyone, they all added up on Wednesday and hit the nail on the head so to speak. There were also a couple of other problems that I needed to sort out as well but that is between me and the gate post.

At the risk of others thinking that I'm throwing my toys out of the pram, here we go.

Problem?  
Because there is free balloon stock to help yourself to for constructing the figures in the workshop and for jamming certain (many) people seem to think it is fine to grab a handful of balloons from the containers, lay them on the floor, use just one balloon and then walk away leaving all the other balloons on the floor unused with all the popped balloons and unwanted sculptures.  Would you do this with your own stock?  They are then left for someone else to pick up during the day, but why should anyone else have to pick them up, why should you expect other people to pick up after you.  It is always the same people helping to keep the room clean and tidy and the same people letting them whilst they stand there talking or just picking their bags up and walking out at the end of the lecture day.  Hundreds of unused balloons are scattered all over the floor and then all the balloons get mixed up and put back into the wrong compartments which then has to be sorted out,  just a little thought and effort would make it so much easier for us, just one less thing for us to sort out and rectify. I should also mention that at some of the days we have had to deal with people helping themselves to the balloon stock that we put out for everyone to use.

Possible remedy?  
One remedy suggested was that I provide everyone with a set number of balloons, perhaps half a bag of 260 balloons.  You can then do with them as you please, any remaining can go home with you. The suggestion being that if people have enough balloons each for the day but not an endless supply they will be more careful with them.  People won't just drop perfectly good balloons on the floor and walk away. Do people throw all there balloons on the floor at home when working on a sculpture?  I always try to work neat and tidy and have never seen anyone do so with their own balloons, just other peoples at the days.

Problem?
Talking during the workshop, This was even more of a problem on Wednesday, not sure why. We have always said the days would not change due to them being filmed. We want good old banter, laughter and funny comments encouraged that are related to what the speaker/lecturer is explaining as it helps the atmosphere at the day and comes across better on the DVD for those not able to attend.
But I feel it is exceedingly rude to talk about un-related subjects over a guest lecturer/guild member who is taking the trouble to share with us all his ideas and thoughts.
 
Remedy?, Please take the time to be courteous and respect the artist.  Please go to the far end of the room if you need to speak and please speak quietly.  

Problem?
Mobile Phones, I always ask for these to be switched to silent/vibrate. We appreciate you have to answer the phone as it could be a booking etc. There is not a problem with people walking in and out of the lecture to answer the phone.

Remedy?
Before each workshop we need to have a moment although we do already when everyone turns their phones off.  


Problem?
Video, We always say take as many pictures as you like but no videoing, yet I have to tell a few people to stop videoing at the days.  Some seem to think we are talking to others perhaps? And the request does not apply to them?  The no video rule is important, guests share their knowledge with us but don't want people videoing their work to end up on youtube or wherever.  It is for the Care and Share workshop only.  If people ignore the video rule it is disrespectful and will put people off showing things.
 
Remedy?
Ban anyone caught videoing?
 
Problem?
During the day I ask EVERYONE to clean up to avoid a huge job at the end.  And who wants to be working in a messy room?  It's ALWAYS the same few people who help and do this whilst the other people, the majority who act as though the rules yet again do not apply to them.  
Again, "Why should other people be cleaning up after you?" Please just help for a few minutes, it makes it so much easier.
This problem seems to get worse at every day we organise, I even stand next to some who are not helping to clean up and they still just stand about with no intention of helping to clear up the mess that they have helped to make.
As soon as I ask for the room to be tidied there is a mass exit for a cigarette outside, the tea machine or to check your phone or make a call.

Remedy?
Everyone cleans up between lectures. Pop unwanted balloons and put your wanted balloon sculptures somewhere safe ready to take home. Perhaps the next lecture does not start until the clean up has been done.  

I have to say that the reason I am finally writing this is because of the way the Lecture day ended on Wednesday, I felt a bit embarresed as at the end of the day the majority just left after Dennis had finished his last spot, there was the room full of unwanted and unused inflated and un-inflated balloons and sculptures with just a few people left to help tidy the room up and put everything away as it was hired to a dance club in the evening and had to be cleaned. I believe, Diane, Thelma, Amanda, Dennis, Ingrid, Lyn and myself were left to put things straight, apologies if I have missed anyone else off the list and I was a bit embarrassed that the lecturer for the day Dennis who had shared so much with everyone and who organises and runs the biggest twister group had to help us carry all the stock/sales items into a locked and secure room overnight and help tidy the room as everyone from the day, guild members included had all done a disappearing act.

Nothing really to do with the day but something that did surprise me, I booked a restaurant in the evening for the 14 people who were staying over and others had the  idea to meet at the hotel and take as few cars as possible, seemed like a good idea but when we met at the agreed time half the people had already made there way to the restaurant leaving some with no transport waiting in the car park. Dennis, Thelma and myself did manage to get everyone to the restaurant.

On Thursday it was more of the same with Lyn, Thelma and I being left at the end of the day to tidy the room up, we had so many sculptures left to dispose of with at least 10 of the love birds in the heart that Daniel shared left in the room. We eventually got away and to Weatherspoons just as others were leaving to go home.

I have been sitting on the fence about posting this but I do feel we need to sort the problems out and make the days run smoother for everyone.  If we put on these days for everyone then I feel it's only right that everyone does their bit.  
These "remedies" are just suggestions.  If anyone has any views or ideas please let us have your thoughts, you may 100% disagree with everything that I have said, that is fine I will not be upset, an open and honest discussion is good for everyone.
The idea is to help build the days so that they evolve and benefit everyone who takes the time and trouble to attend and hopefully improve their modelling skills. We are at the beginning of a club and it would be nice to get everyone pulling in the same direction.

Graham ducks down behind the keyboard to see what gets thrown his way.

How about banning tea and coffee till the floor is tidy as I notice that some peolple translate "tidy up" to "have a cup or tea"  

i don't think anyone could disagree with any of what you've said Graham - the days are a bargain and good fun, it doesn't take much effort to help out with tidying up etc and it makes the world of difference

This is a good topic - and it's obviously (and rightly) riled you.

I wasn't at the last C&S so can't make any comment on that, but none of your points seem unreasonable, Graham.  Rightly or wrongly, I usually mouth inflate my 260s, so I'm particularly sensitive to seeing unused balloons lying on the floor, being trampled on etc.  It really annoys me too as needless to say I'm reluctant to use those!

I like the idea of the half bag being handed out but at the risk of getting flamed I'm going to go further and suggest that every participant at the C&S Day brings and uses their own balloon stock, unless it is their first C&S Day (or has a note from their mum    ).  We generally know in advance what the topics will be, and most of the participants I have met at the days are busy enough/experienced/professional to have the vast majority of certainly the 160 and 260 stock required to take part in the day.  If there is a colour or size you don't have and a colleague does, it is much more likely you will only ask for one or two, rather than grabbing a fistful from the stock bins.  If no-one has them, then it is likely they can buy the stock there and then from you!

Further, if each attendee had a 'workstation' and had responsibility for that area then this may alleviate the problem of people wandering off or not clearing up.  It's YOUR workstation - it's YOUR responsibility to keep it clean.

Good points though - I hope some resolution comes of it.

--Neil

Regards the free balloons on the floor...

You have to remember everybody works different so because you are neat & tidy the next person isn't. You would have a fit if you saw my working area.

When you view the workshop pictures do they not look more exciting if the area is a bit messy rather than those that are posed for in a tidy environment?

Giving a bag of balloons seems ok providing there are relative to the workshop.
You could loose out on sales though if somebody was prevented from using an alternative to what they normally use.

Talking during the workshop?

Wondering if this a problem because it is recorded on the DVD or is it just general net-working chit-chat?

Mobile Phones.

Easy.

#1 Fine them £20 there and then.
#2 Stop get everybody to look at them and embarrass them.

To me this is height of rudeness which just goes to prove they have not set their business up properly.

Cleaning Up Problem.

I see it as a business which I have paid to attend (not a freebee), whilst I have no problem in picking a few balloons up at the end I would have a problem with keep being told to clean up during the day. I would rather spend time net working.

I am sure if you had one clean up at the end it would still be a workable workshop although not as neat & tidy as you would want.

You also mentioned help put everything away, what is there to put away?

Hope this point help.

Hi Graham

Thanks for sharing your concerns. I feel it is important as someone who makes the effort to arrange these fantastic days to be open and honest with your feelings. The two-day event in Birmingham was only my second time.

I will be the first to put my hands up for disappearing immediately after day one. I was so fed up having my two days cut down to one day following the need to give a business presentation on the Thursday. And to add to the insult I received a voicemail on Weds asking me to come back so I had to drive home on the weds evening. To say I was fuming was an understatement.

Saying that, I don't feel overly guilty (other than not saying a decent thanks and goodbye) as I found the broom and swept most of the floor and cleared away loose balloons before Dennis did the last part of his lecture. Added to that I bought some cakes and biscuits so I hope I am forgiven!

I thought the day I attended was fantastic BUT there were a few things that I felt uncomfortable about....

1. FREE balloons

Throughout the day I picked up the odd balloon from the free ones on offer, especially those special balloons that I didn't have myself but a lot of the time I simply picked up balloons from my own bag. I did notice a number of people grab handfuls of balloons of a particular colour after Dennis had said 'you need one white 260, two red 260 etc' - I can understand taking the odd spare but the complimentary balloons shouldn't be a reason to waste latex or refill your own balloon bags. I was tempted to say something but as a relatively new boy I didn't feel it appropriate. I do feel there is clearly a 'piss' take here and I would have no issue if you had to bring your own balloons. The day would still be excellent value. The only time I could see this being a problem would be for your complete beginners class. I know you must factor in some latex cost as part of the day but let's be reasonable here, I saw you open several geo blossom bags at £8 a bag (or whatever). I am sure the days are heavily subsidised in return for some latex sales and I always end up buying something.

2. Talking

I didn't have this problem on the first event but Birmingham later in the afternoon on the first day was so annoying. I am not going to start arguments here but two individuals decided to start a full blown conversation in the middle of Dennis' lecture and I am sure this will be heard on the DVD soundtrack. In fact, one of those individuals should have known better. If you have no interest in the lecture or think you know better than the person who is lecturing, then go out to the pub or cafe or even better don't come at all.

3. Rubbish

None of us should be told to clear up our own mess. Call me old fashioned but if I go out to the theatre or movies I throw away my empty can or ice cream tub in the rubbish bin on my way out. I really find it amazing how we are looking for solutions to what really should be common decency and respect for the person lecturing and to Graham and Lynn for organising these events.

p.s. you could move this to the private section but I don't have access to that!

Sorry.. you did have words with a few of us for chatting, think it is more a requirement not to especially as you are now videoing the days for us all to enjoy and remember..

I did keep my area clean and free from broken balloons though... We all pop ballons while working with them and I see no reason why anyone should object to picking up the bits of balloons and putting them in the black plastic bags that where scattered around the room...

And had to leave early so sorry could not help at the end, but would willingly if had stayed... How can anyone who came and enjoyed the day go on and enjoy a meal WITHOUT the organisers of the day  being a part of it? Beyond me... the meal is suppposed to be a wind down and time for all to have fun together, are the organisers no longer part of the team?  Even though I was not there all I can do is apologise to Graham & Lyn for the bad manners shown to them..

Come on guys... these days are as 'Cheap as Chips in fees' and 'Gold dust in Learning how to do balloon models' give them some respect.  I know I cant offer the learning you get on one of these days for the price you pay for them.. Its the best value in the industry.. and no one should want to loose them over silly errors and misgivings on our part

Pam
xx

Fuzzy, Thanks for taking the time and trouble to reply to my post.

Quote from: "Fuzzy"You have to remember everybody works different so because you are neat & tidy the next person isn't. You would have a fit if you saw my working area.

I'm more than happy to throw the balloons around on the floor myself while making designs and working away but I'm also happy to help clear up the mess I have made after as well.

Quote from: "Fuzzy"When you view the workshop pictures do they not look more exciting if the area is a bit messy rather than those that are posed for in a tidy environment?

I'm not after a fully tidy enviroment, more than happy for the mess to be about during the day but with sometimes up to 30 people attending the days and twisting for up to 8 hours there will be a bit of mess to clear up at the end so a couple of quick 5 mins tidy up to help keep the room clean'ish I think would be a sensible solution.

Quote from: "Fuzzy"You could loose out on sales though if somebody was prevented from using an alternative to what they normally use.

Sorry but you lost me on this?

Quote from: "Fuzzy"Talking during the workshop?
Wondering if this a problem because it is recorded on the DVD or is it just general net-working chit-chat?

No it has nothing to do with the filming, we have always said the people at the day come first and the DVD recording second. The talking was completely un related to the lecture.
If it was about networking this in my opinion is un related to the lecture, there is plenty of time during the day and evening meal to network which we highly encourage.

Quote from: "Fuzzy"Mobile Phones. Easy. #1 Fine them £20 there and then. #2 Stop get everybody to look at them and embarrass them.

The idea of the post was not to embarrass anyone, just to get the days running more smoothly so that everyone can enjoy the day so I'm not sure I would like to point any one person out in particular but would appreciate just a quicl look at your phones to make sure they are on silent. My phone is left on as sometimes people ring who are unable to find venue etc but we do try to leave this with Lyn at the far end of the hall.

Quote from: "Fuzzy"Cleaning Up Problem.
I see it as a business which I have paid to attend (not a freebee), whilst I have no problem in picking a few balloons up at the end I would have a problem with keep being told to clean up during the day. I would rather spend time net working.
I am sure if you had one clean up at the end it would still be a workable workshop although not as neat & tidy as you would want.

Yes I agree people do pay a very nominal fee but surely you get great value for money with £15 for a Care & Share day or £35 star lecture day or just £99 if you join the balloon artistes guild. Where else can you get that value for your money.
I'm hoping I do not have to employ a cleaner for the days.
I think I ask 2 or 3 times during the day to tidy the room for 5 mins, 20 people cleaning for 5 mins gets so much more done.
So if you spend the whole day networking who is going to clear your mess up? Surely two 5 min clear up sessions is not to much to ask?
The problem with cleaning up at the end is that from 1pm onwards people start to drift away from the day so we may only have 4/5 at the end to tidy up and in my opinion again this is not fair on those who stay, everyone should help as everyone has contributed to making the mess.

Quote from: "Fuzzy"You also mentioned help put everything away, what is there to put away?

There are the table and chairs to sort out and put away, the tea/coffee area, cup cleaning etc and it would be nice to get a carry out with all the product but not essential.

Perhaps we need to charge an extra £5 per day and hire a cleaner

Nippy thanks also for taking the time to reply, If I have read your thread correctly there was some people taking stock?
This has been going on a while and is just another issue we unfortunately have to deal with.
The thread/post was not having a go at any one individual as during the two days I think I had to ask about 8 people to keep quiet or stop talking. There are many who go above there fair share of helping to keep the venue tidy and bring along a few cream cakes etc which is always very much appreciated and makes the day even more fun and enjoyable with a special bond between twisters that is lacking in other forms of entertainment.
The geo's cost £13 a bag so there are a few pennies spent on having the correct balloons available for each lecture but now with the club we have a few pennies to help pay for everything.

Pam thanks for your input, I'm just trying to make the days run a little more smoothly for Lyn and I but also so that everyone has a nice learning enviroment to improve there modelling skills from as well.
Dennis and Ingrid did tell us a few tips on how there days are planned with everyone having a role to play within the united twisters group. They also had desk/work station areas to use as well and everyone had to set up their own area and keep it tidy during the event. Not sure we would have enough small tables at all the seperate venues we use but all input is most welcome.

It's a shame that so few who attended the two day event have not put up a post on what they thought about things, I was hoping a few more would contribute.

I agree with graham on most points such as talking, 'borrowing' stock and tidying. Personally as usually first there (got to get the good parking spec) I do help to lug the stuff in, i was tidying on the first day and I use 90% of my own balloons (as being a lazy git I cant be bothered to walk to get them)On the second i didnt make the love heart as I was 'elsewhere' ie hungover. Graham was giving out balloons this time which is better as he must know what is required for the day and once used thats it!!! Its only fair.
As for the phone ok mine did activate to laural and hardy theme and i did make a bolt for the door so i apologise for that one.
It should be a fun day and that we have little impromtu jam sessions in little groups is good.
Overall its a good day that i look forward to and hope that it remains in the simialr vein (but without balloon borrowing, talking whilst lecturing and everyone has a tidy including me)
 

This was my first event involving other balloon twisters (normally I'm alone twisting in my bedroom); I was very impressed not only with the lecture but also with the camaraderie with other twisters. These problems that are expressed are common to all workshop clubs, the main cure, is to make people aware of what is expected of them. And keep on keep on keep on reminding them.

Fuzzy wrote:
You could loose out on sales though if somebody was prevented from using an alternative to what they normally use.

Sorry but you lost me on this?


What I was getting at is if you restrict your supplies buy only giving a bag on arrival you could loose sales.

Example; The Semertex hart has a loger next than Qualatex, which oyu would only find out if you tried them both or somebody told you.

Mobile phone.

I assume you tell people to turn of their phones at the beginning.  Then they go off which annoys you.

Solution: Live with it or deal with it, how cares whether they are embarrassed, sorry it's their fault for being RUDE.

There are the table and chairs to sort out and put away, the tea/coffee area, cup cleaning etc and it would be nice to get a carry out with all the product but not essential.

Perhaps we need to charge an extra £5 per day and hire a cleaner?

Yes.

It's like turning up for a show and expecting the guest/booker to carry in your equipment & set it up for you.

This is a business event Graham, not a friendly get together.

Fuzzy wrote

QuoteThis is a business event Graham, not a friendly get together.

Can't it be both?
Can we not be polite, friendly and helpful to each other AND network, learn and improve our balloon art?

After all, the entertainment business is not the cut throat arena of the stock market.

I have to agree with Danny on this one, although it may be a business I know Graham tries to keep the costs
to a bare minimum so that everyone gets great value for money,
keep up the great work Graham
                                    Colin

Quote from: "Danny the Idiot"Fuzzy wrote

QuoteThis is a business event Graham, not a friendly get together.

Can't it be both?
Can we not be polite, friendly and helpful to each other AND network, learn and improve our balloon art?

After all, the entertainment business is not the cut throat arena of the stock market.

Hi Graham
When i used to go to the c & S days i thought it was like going to your local magic club, a friendly gathering,it was.
If this is a business presentation maybe grahan should charge £100 + ,but it's not, so help and tidy up.!
Mobile phones, unless you have a brick put it on vibrate or talk out of the room.
Networking, talk out of the room.
If you were famous and doing the lecture how would you feel!!
At home after i have made a mess i tidy up because if i didn't the wife would come and ********
Wizzz