Hi,

Last night i was working my regular gig in a themed restaraunt in Bournemouth, whilst
i was making something for one of my tables, she went on to tell me that she worked for Bowlplex and that she was putting on a local event....................she then went on to tell me that the balloon entertainer she had hired was doing it for free........................(they only requested money for balloons and a few bowling vouchers)

I personally feel this is very damaging for the business and find it hard to understand why anyone would travel out of there local area and work for nothing!!

I know this will get a mixed opinion and i understand that sometimes we may offer certain things to potential big customers if it will lead to bigger things but surely this would be on a local level and where it makes commercial sense.................

Anyhow i think its a bad idea myself and believe that if you are a good artist you should be paid and not be afraid to ask for money!!

Anyhow i am starting to rant!!

Love to know what everyones feelings are..............

Normski aka Balloonman

I totally agree doing free jobs for companies that can afford to pay does no-one favours.  At the end of the day if you do a job for free you generally would not get paid follow on work from the company!!!

Trouble is there will always be over enthusiastic and naive amateurs in any profession that will do freebies or work for drastically less than all their local competition - and then there are those that will deliberately undercut you just to get a job even if it means making a loss.

In the nicest possible way it is also nice to see other areas of entertainment get asked to do freebies too because as a face painter primarily I seem to get a call at least once a week with someone either wanting me to work for free or pay to be at their event  :evil:  :evil:  The best one I have had so far was this week as it happens.  I got a call from a guy organising a commercial funday and wanted a face painter but wanted to charge £100 for the pitch.  I did give him a bit of a lecture about how unrealistic this was I mean who would work for over 3 hours just to pay a pitch fee and that's if they have advertised it well enough and if it's not raining!!!

I do do freebies but these are for my Daughter's school and a couple of charities that I personally support - definitely not for companies that have more than enough money to pay me my hourly rate.

I again agree 100%. I have my two chosen charities which I work for free - (see bottom of this post).

What frustrates me is on the occasions over the years where I have let my guard down and said yes to a freebee, I find you get a lot LESS respect than I would if I was getting paid for it.

I get lots of calls via Yellow Pages asking for free entertainment, to them, they think they are just asking for an hour or two of your time which cost you nothing, but they don't realise, this is my only income, so if I say yes to them, I might have to turn away a paying gig which then means I'm 'X' amount of money out of pocket. I now tell them on the phone that I already do a lot of work for my two chosen charities already.



My chosen cahrities are deaf children (I spent two years learning sign language to put on a show for them) and also the Belarusian kids affected from the Chernobyl disaster of 22 years ago.

I only work for free if its my idea, Like if i am trying to get in to a event I might tell them to cover my cost EG balloons and fuel as long as i can sell the balloons. But I always say if I get a full paying gig I will have to let them down this some times makes them pay for me

Quote from: "cashmagic"But I always say if I get a full paying gig I will have to let them down

What concerns me by doing that is if you get a paying gig and had to let them down, even though you have already pre-warned them, they'll tell everybody on the day that it was 'you' who let them down. They won't mention that you already advised them in advance, this can then ruin your reputation.

I agree in this industry reputation is everything and you need to do everything you can to protect it.  I am also old fashioned in that if I commit to something I will go regardless of what other work offers I get in for the same day.  Hence I do not accept jobs where I have to charge the public to make anything back (especially not if they want me to pay for the privilege of being there) and I won't do charity gigs on weekends in the summer as for face painting I can generally book a day out a couple of times over.

I also agree that when you do do freebies you do seem to get treated with no respect.  Although saying that I have done a few jobs where I have been paid to be somewhere but my face painting services have been provided to the general public for free and again it seems that getting something for nothing brings out the feral instincts in people as I have had my worst queue arguments at gigs like this  :roll:

Quote from: "YvonneH"I am also old fashioned in that if I commit to something I will go regardless of what other work offers I get in for the same day.  

I don't think it's old fashion Yvonne, I'd say you're having respect for your client in that your providing a 100% first class reliabilty in the service they've booked you for. I know of entertainers who have taken a booking and then canceled it to take a higher paying show. I also hear the comments from the people they've let down, I couldn't do it, once they've booked me, it's in my diary with a full stop, nothing will take it's place.

Graeme (Billy Wiz)

I see your point on that one but theres one thing to say I am not a charity you cant walk out a shop with out paying for stuff

Hi,

As artists we all spend many hours and time practicing the art of enetertainment and this is why is bothers me that it is de-valued by someone working for a big corporation for free, i would never embarrass the person, as i was told by the marketing manager who was doing the gig for free but i hope that by raising this topic it may encourage them to have more value in what they do.

I spend many hours practicing,learning and trying to develop my balloons and have no problem in charging people, if i was just starting out perhaps my fee would be less than it is now as i am sure that there may be other entretainers who charge more than me as they may be better or offer more but FREEEEE....................like i said bad news for people that need to earn a living!!

Norm

Balloonman

Just for another point of view - and I'm not disagreeing with any of the above comments....

But...

There are sometimes some very good reasons for doing balloons for free; Perhaps you want some
new photos
video footage of you at work
publicity from the event
impress a new client
invite new clients to see you at work
practice new balloon models
practice a new character or style of performing
Putting good will in the bank (good will doesn't pay the bills but it may be useful for future stuff.)
giving something back to your chosen charity.

This all depends on the event and the charity/client, where you are at in your skills/business etc....

 8-)
Danny

I agree with Danny - there are occasions when it may do some good, for you and a charity, to work free but they are few and far between.

It depends - are  you being asked or are you offering to work for free? In the first instance you have the right to refuse , in the second you are - or should be - controlling exactly what will be given for free.

I have done a few free gigs but on my terms - I set the limits on what they get.

It does help if the person knows why it has to be that way - every show no matter how small has overheads - time, consumables, opportunity cost and as Danny Said your investment in acquiring and practicing your skills.

At Birmingham Care and share I was discussing rates with someone- it is true that if you charge peanuts you will not be treated very well because the booker thinks if thats all you charge you aren't the best - if you charge double or even treble for the same show there is a psychological message going with the price that if you can charge those sort of rates you must be good at what you do - so before you get there they already think you are good.

It's a little like Malcolm's' point in his lecture - if you're asked for a dragon and you pull out a green balloon you're more that halfway to convincing the recipient it is a good model because it's the right colour.

I don't think anyone is saying never do freebies.  I myself (as I said above) do do a few freebies a year for my daughter's school and for a couple of charities I support.

However, I will not work for a company for free especially if I want to get further paid work from them.  Companies have entertainment budgets and can easily afford to pay us our hourly rate more so than your average parents putting on a party and would you let them convince you to work for free or for a significantly lower rate?  No - of course not.

I also truly believe if you do one job for free for a company you are really unlikely to ever get paid work from them ever.  They will see it is a free commodity and if they didn't pay for it last time why should they this time.  If you won't do it for free the next time there will be another mug out there that will.

If you really want to practice new models go and busk or if you don't feel happy doing that how about seeing if you can go along to your local beavers or brownies pack for an evening.  

Sorry I shall get down off my soapbox but I am so sick and tired of companies placing no value on our professions and expecting us to work for free for them.

Yvonne,

All i can say is..................well said!!!  

NORM

I have read with interest this thread. I agree with what has been said.
Last week I 'worked' for 'free'   sort of
I did a sort of have a go workshop and made lots of models for my old cub pack. It was fun, I must have done ok as they want me back and also to do something for the scouts and the beavers. I was offered something towards my ballloons but I said this time it was on me, I spent many years at the group as a youngster and it is nice to give back, also that evening the cub pack did a joint evening with a special needs pack so it seemed extra worthwhile. The joy on their faces not only when I made something but when they all made their own dog was magic.
I was presented with a nice bottle of white wine at the end as well, so even the wife was happy  

A day or so later I received an e-mail from the leader saying how much everyone had enjoyed the evening, I had the adults making a dog too  :evil: and asking me if I would do another evening for them and when I did that I should take cards along so that they could be given to all the parents as they picked up thir kids.
They also did a CRB for me so I now have that  

So whilst I did do it for 'free' I think I did very well out of the evening for what it cost me.
I met up with several of the leaders yesterday, at a funeral unfortunately, and they were all very keen for me to go back and were keen to tell all about it   I have agreed and also agreed for them to pay for my costs this time.

I guess what I am saying is that 'free' isn't always free and it can be good PR and lead to good things. Just make sure you know what you are agreeing to do first. Pretty much what has been said before but I wanted to join and share  :oops:

Dave that is exactly the kind of genuine reason I believe people SHOULD do freebies for.  They are a charity that you personally have ties too and they truely appreciated your time and effort on thier behalf.